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Traveller-digest     Tuesday, December 21 1999     Volume 1999 : Number 1542<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.<BR>
All rights reserved.<BR>
<BR>
The following topics are covered in this digest:<BR>
<BR>
Re: Marooned (MegaT)<BR>
types of year<BR>
Re: Far Future Terra (was: Vanishing Wetlands...)<BR>
Re: England<BR>
Re: Marooned (MegaT)<BR>
SEC: UNCLASS - Far Future Terra<BR>
Re: technology advances<BR>
Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
Re: San Francisco Trav game<BR>
Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
Re: United States<BR>
Re:War of 1812<BR>
Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
Re: WAY OT... Are Kenji and Kiri sane?<BR>
RE: Rebellious Attitudes (was: RE: the north american union)<BR>
RE: the north american union<BR>
Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1540<BR>
Re: Scumbags<BR>
Re: San Francisco Trav game<BR>
Re: Far Future Terra (was: Vanishing Wetlands...)<BR>
..and it comes with a fresher!  (OT)<BR>
Re: Far Future Terra (was: Vanishing Wetlands...)<BR>
<BR>
----------------------------------------------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 03:24:59 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Marooned (MegaT)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> The Imperial Standard Survival Kit (TL12)<BR>
><BR>
> 1 x Filter/Respirator<BR>
> 8 x 500ml water containers<BR>
> 30 x Cold light sticks<BR>
> 1 x Commlink/Beacon<BR>
> 4 x Flares<BR>
> 1 x Tarpaulin<BR>
> 1 x Cord (2mm x 300m)<BR>
> 1 x Rope (1cm x 50m)<BR>
> 1 x Climbing Hammer<BR>
> 24 x Climbing Spikes<BR>
> 1 x First Aid Kit<BR>
> 1 x Machete<BR>
> 1 x Binoculars<BR>
> 1 x Sheltersuit<BR>
> 1 x Heatpump<BR>
> 1 x Water Purifier<BR>
> 1 x Raft, Inflatable<BR>
> Miscellaneous : Compass, Fishhooks & Line, Matches etc.<BR>
> 1 x Survival Manual (A microflim reader, very high-tech)<BR>
> 1 x Survival Rifle (Listed as Rifle -2, I assume it's a 5mm)<BR>
> 1 x Carrying Case<BR>
<BR>
One *obvious* ommission is a *knife*. A machete can substitute for a<BR>
hatchet, but you can't use it to cut up food or trim things. BTW, old<BR>
survival school tip (picked up from an old National Geographic article<BR>
about the USAF survival school "near" Fairchild AFB in Washington<BR>
state). Do *not* use your thumb to test the sharpness of the knife.<BR>
Doing so guarantees a lacerated thumb. Those babbies are razor sharp<BR>
when issued!<BR>
<BR>
A small sharpening stone would be a good idea too. And a medium sized<BR>
tarp, "dull" color on one side, "bright" color on the other. This is<BR>
because even *with a "shelter suit" you may want to keep yourself and<BR>
your gear dry. And the colors are because you may not want to attract<BR>
attention from the natives. <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 03:33:22 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: types of year<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Ob Trav: I envision worlds like Psaydi useing the sidereal year rather than<BR>
> the imperial year for record keeping. Religios dictatorships would most<BR>
> likely keep time in local units except where such units are either too long<BR>
> or too short for useful calculations in manageable numbers (Such as years<BR>
> under, say, 60 ImpStdDays). Or days under 6 hours, or over about 40...<BR>
> (Days in the 10-15 hour range will probably be useable as "Doubled Days.").<BR>
><BR>
> Sidereal Years over about 500 ISD's will probably also not be in favor,<BR>
> simply due to the problems of individuals not processing years that long.<BR>
> At least not humans....<BR>
<BR>
Sideral years are of no real interest except to astronomers. On<BR>
planet's with axial tilts sufficient to have them cause seasons, the<BR>
tropical years will be the important period (that's the time between<BR>
vernal equinoxes, or summer solstices, or...). <BR>
<BR>
On planets with low axial tilts but very eccentric orbits, the solar<BR>
year may be more important (time between periastrons).<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 03:44:46 PST<BR>
From: shadow@krypton.rain.com (Leonard Erickson)<BR>
Subject: Re: Far Future Terra (was: Vanishing Wetlands...)<BR>
<BR>
In mail you write:<BR>
<BR>
> Via electronic medium on 12/20/99 7:01 PM, shadow@krypton.rain.com wrote:<BR>
><BR>
>> Just consider that given the faults all thru California, and the 3000+<BR>
>> year timescale, expect that anything west of the main fault lines could<BR>
>> be as much as a few *miles* north of where it is now.<BR>
><BR>
> Interesting point, and I suppose the same holds true along other fault lines<BR>
> (at least the sideways sliding types), and other geological activity would<BR>
> have changed the terrain as well.<BR>
<BR>
It depends on the fault lines. California is one of the more prominent<BR>
cases of a crustal plate sliding along the edge of another. <BR>
<BR>
Most others are either seperating (Africa's Great Rift valley will be<BR>
an arm of the sea eventually, much like the Red sea). Or they are<BR>
impacting (such as the Indian plate slamminmg into the Eurasian plate<BR>
and raising the Himalayas). <BR>
<BR>
> Like the chain Hawaii.<BR>
<BR>
Hawaii is a geological oddity. There's a hot spot *deep* in the mantle<BR>
there, which causes a rising plume of hot rock. This melts thru the<BR>
thin oceanic crust, and the Hawaii Islands are the result. The plume<BR>
hasn't moved in millions of years, but the crust the island sit on<BR>
*has*. Thus the chain of islands.<BR>
<BR>
> Aren't the Himmalayas still rising?<BR>
<BR>
Possibly. After all, India is still trying to ram Asia.<BR>
<BR>
> Has anyone considered or actually mapped such a "far future Terra,"<BR>
> and what all should be taken into consideration?<BR>
<BR>
Check geology books. There's a book I read a long time ago that I know<BR>
had maps of the *past* continental layouts. It may have had future ones<BR>
as well, but I don't recall. After all, it was more than 30 years ago.<BR>
<BR>
> Has the ecology changed at all, have extraterrestrial life forms<BR>
> entered our biosphere? Oh my, what a can of worms! Joy! ;)<BR>
<BR>
Well, the sun will continue getting hotter. We may or may not cause an<BR>
increase in the greenhouse effect. Odds are strongly in favor of few<BR>
glaciers and a very small icecap around the south pole. The Arctic<BR>
ocean may only have seasonal ice. And the rising sea levels will<BR>
require either massive dikes or change the coastlines *significantly*. <BR>
<BR>
Just as an example, in downtown Portland, there used to be a USGS<BR>
benchmark across the street from Pioneer Courthouse Square indicating<BR>
100 feet above sea level. It was removed when they put in the light<BR>
rail system. <BR>
<BR>
But try checking USGS and USCGS maps (or the equivalent) for areas you<BR>
and people you know live. Check out where 50 feet above sea level is.<BR>
Where 100 is. Where 200 is. Then consider that 50 feet of ise in sea<BR>
level is just about certain, 100 is likely, and 200 is far from out of<BR>
the question. <BR>
<BR>
Anybody want to visit the Cascadia Islands? <BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
Leonard Erickson (aka Shadow)<BR>
 shadow@krypton.rain.com        <--preferred<BR>
leonard@qiclab.scn.rain.com     <--last resort<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:14:17 +0000<BR>
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: England<BR>
<BR>
Black ICE <wombat@premier.net> wrote:<BR>
>Steven Hudson wrote:<BR>
>> <BR>
>> >From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net><BR>
>> >Subject: Re: United States<BR>
>> ...<BR>
>> >Campaign: The U.S.-Japanese Naval War 1941-1945_.)  England, meanwhile,<BR>
>> >has not been invaded and conquered since AD 1066, nearly 1000 years ago.<BR>
>> <BR>
>>  Unless you count the Glorious Revolution, but it's perhaps a bit<BR>
impolite :><BR>
><BR>
>Assuming that you're referring to Cromwell's revolution:<BR>
><BR>
>Citizen Cromwell didn't _invade_ England, he rebelled against the<BR>
>rightful King of England.  In the end, the insurrectionists failed to<BR>
>displace the institution of the English monarchy.<BR>
><BR>
>Admittedly, the monarchy was restored by a claimant from overseas, but<BR>
>this was not a conquest in the same sense as, say, Germany's conquest of<BR>
>France in AD 1940.<BR>
<BR>
That's just Charles II returning from exile.<BR>
<BR>
The "Glorious Revolution" usually refers to when we forced James II to<BR>
abdicate<BR>
and replaced him with an Orange (William and Mary) from Holland.<BR>
<BR>
We did get invaded by the Scots afterwards but they never got south of Derby,<BR>
so it doesn't count.<BR>
<BR>
Sorry, no dates available because "1066 and all that" is noted for not being<BR>
in to dates.<BR>
<BR>
Phil Kitching<BR>
- --<BR>
  http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/<BR>
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.<BR>
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 13:19:05 +0000<BR>
From: Phil Kitching <postmark.design@btinternet.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Marooned (MegaT)<BR>
<BR>
"Daniel Phelps" <phelpsd@gate.net> wrote:<BR>
>Was written:<BR>
><BR>
>>Food is the real problem. There's damn little living up there in the<BR>
>>winter. And if you aren't near the ocean, make that *nothing*.<BR>
>><BR>
>>> BTW, Polar bears are notorious for hunting anything that moves on the<BR>
>>> ice, including man, almost always from ambush.<BR>
><BR>
><BR>
>In light of the above if you are in that situation and you slay the polar<BR>
>bear rather than the converse be advised not to eat its liver.   That is the<BR>
>one, albeit practically useless tidbit, I gleaned many years ago from the US<BR>
>Army Survival Guide which continues to remain in my brain.  Why you ask?<BR>
>To much vitamin A... no not in my brain... in the liver.<BR>
<BR>
Isn't that what Lucy died of?<BR>
<BR>
(Lucy being one of those million year old hominid fossils.)<BR>
<BR>
Phil Kitching<BR>
- --<BR>
  http://www.btinternet.com/~salvo/<BR>
  Postmark Design Bureau, Emerging Technologies Division.<BR>
 "Microwaving half-baked ideas from across the Galaxy"<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Wed, 22 Dec 1999 00:18:10 +1100<BR>
From: "David Healey" <David.Healey@dcb.defence.gov.au><BR>
Subject: SEC: UNCLASS - Far Future Terra<BR>
<BR>
Was writ :<BR>
<BR>
<BZA><BR>
Interesting point, and I suppose the same holds true along other fault lines<BR>
(at least the sideways sliding types), and other geological activity would<BR>
have changed the terrain as well. Like the chain Hawaii. Aren't the<BR>
Himmalayas still rising?  Has anyone considered or actually mapped such a<BR>
"far future Terra," and what all should be taken into consideration? Are<BR>
there canonical (or non-canonical) refs to metroplexes or superstructures on<BR>
Earth, or lasting war damage? Has the ecology changed at all, have<BR>
extraterrestrial life forms entered our biosphere? Oh my, what a can of<BR>
worms! Joy! ;)<BR>
</BZA><BR>
<BR>
Depends on how far in front you wanna look.  Under one model, we down here follow our destiny and completely overrun PNG and grind it under the northern parts of the continent.  The same model (IIRC) has the two halves of NZ becoming more widely seperated.<BR>
<BR>
In terms of Trav timelines, not a huge deal of difference.  Couple of meters here and there.  Himalayas probably be a bit higher.  Few islands will have drifted a little, continents may have moved a bit and sea-levels will have probably altered significantly.  The damage form all those really-quick rocks will have been cleaned up and provision will have been made forthose feline-like humanoids with a comfortable choice in footware.  San Francisco's water supplies will have been relocated and the Red Wings will have been hailed as the gods of Hockey.  So, all in all, not a great deal of change will have taken place.<BR>
<BR>
Dave<BR>
<BR>
David Healey<BR>
DCB-M  MVS Operations<BR>
<BR>
600 Years ago, they KNEW the world was flat<BR>
60 Years ago, they KNEW you couldn't go faster than sound<BR>
6 Minutes ago, you KNEW your code was indestructable ......<BR>
<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             !<BR>
                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                                             <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 07:26:14 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: technology advances<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 20 Dec 1999, Kenji Schwarz wrote:<BR>
> <BR>
> I beg yer *pardon*!  Even under the new, improved DSM-IV, I'm not<BR>
> technically nuts.  It's a close scrape, sure, but I'm *just fine*<BR>
> according to the *pros*.  The *authorities*.  I mean, I even dropped the<BR>
> whole "gauss amphibian rifle" project when I asked one of my dorm mates to<BR>
> ask Steven J. Gould how much one of those really, really poisonous tree<BR>
> frogs weighs and what its volume is, and got looked at funny.  Because I<BR>
> *care* about normalcy.  Yessiree.<BR>
> <BR>
<BR>
Awright...if _Kenji_ shows up in next months 'This View of Life', I'm<BR>
grabbing my guns, the dogs,  my mre's, my generators and armaggedon outa<BR>
here!<BR>
<BR>
<"It's the end of the world as we know it..."><BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 07:34:28 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
>OK OK, I have to finnally admit it.  The American invasion of Britain's <BR>
>Canadian territories was an evil plot.  America wanted to grab Canada before <BR>
>it bacame an independent nation in order to prevent Hockey from being <BR>
>invented!!  The plot failed completely, and now the sport has infested even <BR>
>the climates of Florida and Los Angles.  OOOOHHHHH history!!!<BR>
<BR>
Not only that, but we've also taken over your entertainment industry. Some<BR>
of our agents in the field: Celine Dion. Dan Aykroyd. William Shatner. Alex<BR>
Trebek. David James Elliot. Jim Carrey. Tommy Chong. Pamela Anderson. Michael <BR>
J. Fox. Peter Jennings. Howie Mandel. Alanis Morissette. Donald Sutherland.<BR>
Shania Twain. Leslie Nielsen. And the recently-late Hank Snow. <BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 07:25:04 -0700<BR>
From: cos 90 <cos90@powersurfr.com><BR>
Subject: Re: San Francisco Trav game<BR>
<BR>
>Guys, I had a hell of a grant proposal to finish today, I came home to find<BR>
>out that the cat has had lots of fun in my absence, and I haven't finished<BR>
>making the masters for my nengajo (New Year's Cards)!<BR>
><BR>
>Pleeeeeeeeeeeease have another get together at the pub, I can't make it<BR>
>tonight!  I am too tired and Hiroshi wants to talk...<BR>
<BR>
You have a talking cat???<BR>
<BR>
- -- g<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
     Glenn St-Germain  Edmonton, Alberta, Canada <BR>
cos90@powersurfr.com  http://plaza.powersurfr.com/glenn<BR>
        "There is no longer any normal to be"<BR>
                                 -- Gary Numan<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 08:41:07 -0600<BR>
From: ehenry@newberlin.org (Eric Henry)<BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
The British were not powerful enough to stay in the capital or anywhere else<BR>
in flegdling America.  Thus, they had no staying power.<BR>
<BR>
Combine that with the added victory of British respect for American ships<BR>
and sailors and you have a clearcut victory.  AFter the fighting began<BR>
somebody decided adding Canada to the wish list would be a good idea.  Since<BR>
that venture failed America of 1812 came oput with at worst, a draw.<BR>
<BR>
Since the only British claim to success is "We didn't lose anything<BR>
important" they can at best claim a draw.  However, since their goal was not<BR>
to lose anything they achieved it and were thus victorius as far they cared.<BR>
<BR>
- -----Original Message-----<BR>
><BR>
>> Britain succeeded in demonstrating its global reach, if not its staying<BR>
>> power<BR>
><BR>
>Pardon ?<BR>
><BR>
>What makes you think it didn't demonstrate "Staying power"<BR>
><BR>
>>and in not losing Canada.<BR>
><BR>
>>Instead of calling it a draw one might accurately state that both<BR>
>> sides were victorious in that they got what they wanted.<BR>
><BR>
>The British got what they wanted, an end to the war without any further<BR>
>concessions, but the US definitely did not get what it wanted, which was<BR>
>possession of the Canadian colonies<BR>
><BR>
>By your own standards, therefore, the US lost.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 07:50:03 -0700 (MST)<BR>
From: Bruce Johnson <johnson@Pharmacy.Arizona.EDU><BR>
Subject: Re: United States<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 20 Dec 1999, Leonard Erickson wrote:<BR>
 <BR>
> Other "countries" to consider are things like the Anasazi in the<BR>
> Southwest, the folks who built Ankor Wat in Cambodia, etc. <BR>
<BR>
Actually, the Anasazi are relatively recent, dating, at most, from a few<BR>
hundred BC. The large Chaco Canyon site, the classic Anasazi cliff<BR>
dwelling was constructed around 1000 AD.<BR>
<BR>
Now, depending on who you talk to, the Anasazi _are_ still around, as the<BR>
Pueblo and Hopi tribes in AZ and NM. <BR>
<BR>
In fact, all of the 'great Empires' of the New World are relatively<BR>
recent. The Olmec culture, the progenitors of the Maya, and who influenced<BR>
the other cultures in Central and South America, date from about 1500-900<BR>
BC.<BR>
<BR>
Bruce Johnson<BR>
University of Arizona<BR>
College of Pharmacy<BR>
Information Technology Group<BR>
<BR>
Institutions do not have opinions, merely customs<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 07:30:01 -0800<BR>
From: "Bruce Macintosh" <bruce.macintosh@worldnet.att.net><BR>
Subject: Re:War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
William writes<BR>
>Quite literally, it was a PR coup for the US; while merchant shipping to<BR>
>and from the US may have been slowed to a trickle (some blockade running<BR>
>did occur), it did not prevent the US from projecting force on the seas,<BR>
>all the way to Tripoli. This last is memorialized by the new branch of the<BR>
>US military which was raised due to the war in their hymn: "From the Halls<BR>
>of Montezuma,/ to the Shores of Tripoli / We will fight our country's<BR>
>battles / On the land as on the sea." Yes, Uncle Sam's Musket and Cutlas,<BR>
>Uncle Sam's Misguided Children, the US Marine Corps. The war also served to<BR>
>unify the colonies at a time where framentation seemed immanent.<BR>
<BR>
"To the shores of Tripoli" refers to US operations against Barbary Coast<BR>
pirate states well  before the War of 1812, that could only be carried<BR>
out since the US was at peace with Britain at the time.<BR>
<BR>
There were no significant US naval operations in the Med in the actual<BR>
war of 1812, and no troop landings of any size that I'm aware of.<BR>
<BR>
>Item: The Brittish did not mobilize their army in any great force.<BR>
Britain's mobilization or lack thereof was determined by the course of<BR>
the Napoleonic war. It might be more acccurate to say that they finally<BR>
demobilized a significant fraction of their army after years of the bloody<BR>
Penninsular war.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 10:27:58 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: [OT] War of 1812<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 21 Dec 1999, cos 90 wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Not only that, but we've also taken over your entertainment industry. Some<BR>
> of our agents in the field: Celine Dion. Dan Aykroyd. William Shatner. Alex<BR>
> Trebek. David James Elliot. Jim Carrey. Tommy Chong. Pamela Anderson. Michael <BR>
> J. Fox. Peter Jennings. Howie Mandel. Alanis Morissette. Donald Sutherland.<BR>
> Shania Twain. Leslie Nielsen. And the recently-late Hank Snow. <BR>
<BR>
I'm sorry, I missed something; what do these people have to do with<BR>
entertainment, again?<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 10:34:12 -0500 (EST)<BR>
From: Kenji Schwarz <schwarz@fas.harvard.edu><BR>
Subject: Re: WAY OT... Are Kenji and Kiri sane?<BR>
<BR>
On Mon, 20 Dec 1999, Kiri Aradia Morgan wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> Even so, since the original post was referring to things that I might do to<BR>
> you which had you considering relocation...  since *I* may not be sane, it<BR>
> is still not playing sane.  =)<BR>
<BR>
RPGs aren't in DSM-IV, I've already checked.<BR>
<BR>
(Looking at list of Bay area TML'ers).  I haven't checked its index for<BR>
personal names, though.<BR>
<BR>
> LOL, yeah right.  They think I am totally whacked around here and I like it<BR>
> that way.  Just remember Kenji-kun, if they think that you're crazy you can<BR>
> get away with a lot of shit...<BR>
<BR>
Who wants to get away with shit?  They should PAY me to haul away their<BR>
shit.  <BR>
<BR>
I could make a cheap ObTrav remark about Kirk and garbage scows, but<BR>
there are few things more pathetic on this list than lame-ass ObTravs.<BR>
Glory in your off-topicality, you wankers!<BR>
<BR>
Kenji<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:34:44 -0600<BR>
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com><BR>
Subject: RE: Rebellious Attitudes (was: RE: the north american union)<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: david.d.jaques-watson@centrelink.gov.au<BR>
> <BR>
> Dear Folks -<BR>
> <BR>
> Danny wrote:<BR>
> >The British burned the White House and the Capitol.<BR>
> ><BR>
> >We, unfortunately, rebuilt them.<BR>
> <BR>
> I take it this means you are anti-Fed?<BR>
<BR>
Nope - I just want my government to follow the laws - just like I have to.  <BR>
<BR>
Is that so wrong?<BR>
<BR>
 -- vargr1                                              UPP-8D9B85 --<BR>
The three principle virtues of a good programmer   | dmoody@bridge-dot-com<BR>
 are Laziness, Impatience, and Hubris.             | vargr1@jcn1-dot-com<BR>
             ** Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina. **           <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 09:40:50 -0600<BR>
From: "Moody, Danny M." <DMoody@bridge.com><BR>
Subject: RE: the north american union<BR>
<BR>
> -----Original Message-----<BR>
> From: Kyle Schuant [mailto:kyle3054@yahoo.com]<BR>
<BR>
> > After two wars, the score is tied at:<BR>
> > US: 1<BR>
> > UK: 1<BR>
> <BR>
> Hehe, best out of three?<BR>
<BR>
Sometimes, it is best for friends to step back, shake hands, and<BR>
congratulate each other on a good game.<BR>
<BR>
Then, they can go about the important stuff.<BR>
<BR>
ObTrav:<BR>
	In the last century, we have had countries that were at war with<BR>
each other become steady friends.  Why?  Does anyone see the 3I ever<BR>
becoming friends with a polity that they had a war with?<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
 -- vargr1                                              UPP-8D9B85 --<BR>
The three principle virtues of a good programmer   | dmoody@bridge-dot-com<BR>
 are Laziness, Impatience, and Hubris.             | vargr1@jcn1-dot-com<BR>
             ** Omnia dicta fortiora, si dicta latina. **           <BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 16:14:06 -0000<BR>
From: "Mark S Peace" <mark.s.peace@dunelm.org.uk><BR>
Subject: Re: Traveller-digest V1999 #1540<BR>
<BR>
>Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 00:48:00 EST<BR>
>From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
>Subject: Re: United States Territory<BR>
><BR>
>In a message dated 12/20/99 11:28:06 PM Eastern Standard Time,<BR>
>estar@toolcity.net writes:<BR>
><BR>
>> In the year 1100 (57th century) what is the contineal US like and how it<BR>
got<BR>
>>  that way. I know the few canon references to terra but using that as a<BR>
>>  framework what would region formerly inhabited by the US look like? By<BR>
>>  speculating on this we can also develop other nation-regions as well.<BR>
><BR>
>I've got North and Central America with a population of about 3.5 billion<BR>
>(working from the CT population figures, rather than the 40-billion figure<BR>
>for overall Terran population that appeared in the _Solomani_ supplement<BR>
>or _Rats & Cats_).  Over half of that is in the mega-cities of Central<BR>
>America and the Caribbean, although there's a fair amount along the<BR>
>East and West Coasts of North America.  Of course, there's Phoenix<BR>
>Starport in old Arizona.<BR>
><BR>
Trav Digest 13 gives details on Terra.  Stuff relevant to North America:<BR>
<BR>
Largest city is Los Angeles (pop 12.2. bil).  The starport in NA is called<BR>
'Starport Paulo' - originally named 'Starport Phoenix' but renamed because<BR>
this was the name of Solomani underground resistance.<BR>
<BR>
A dome was built over New York (originally because of pollution) and it had<BR>
since been turned into a museum.<BR>
<BR>
Mark.<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 07:19:05 -0900<BR>
From: Peter Newman <pnewman@gci.net><BR>
Subject: Re: Scumbags<BR>
<BR>
 gmgoffin@yahoo.com wrote:<BR>
 <BR>
> they say that at least in some neighborhoods of<BR>
> Glisten, the most likely reason a cop is searching the<BR>
> boot of a grav speeder is the combination of (1) the<BR>
> driver is a vargr,<BR>
<BR>
Is this a case of DWV?<BR>
<BR>
Driving While Vargr.<BR>
<BR>
[Apologies if this crime has been already mentioned,<BR>
I've just resibscribed for Christmas break.]<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 08:30:20 -0800 (PST)<BR>
From: Kiri Aradia Morgan <tiamat@tsoft.com><BR>
Subject: Re: San Francisco Trav game<BR>
<BR>
On Tue, 21 Dec 1999, cos 90 wrote:<BR>
<BR>
> >Guys, I had a hell of a grant proposal to finish today, I came home to find<BR>
> >out that the cat has had lots of fun in my absence, and I haven't finished<BR>
> >making the masters for my nengajo (New Year's Cards)!<BR>
> ><BR>
> >Pleeeeeeeeeeeease have another get together at the pub, I can't make it<BR>
> >tonight!  I am too tired and Hiroshi wants to talk...<BR>
> <BR>
> You have a talking cat???<BR>
> <BR>
No, I thought all you guys knew that Hiroshi is my SO.  Doesn't live with<BR>
me, but we're working on that.<BR>
<BR>
And we REALLY needed to talk last night.<BR>
<BR>
The CAT's name is Tissriel.  I know it's not Japanese, it's from a<BR>
language I use in the universe I do my novels in, which is also my TU.<BR>
Princess of a major non-Aslan feline race, when Tissriel was a child she<BR>
was famous for chasing her tail.  So was my cat when she was small.<BR>
<BR>
Kiri  =)<BR>
<BR>
******************************************************************************<BR>
Kiri Aradia Morgan                                  93!  Thou Art God<BR>
tiamat@tsoft.com<BR>
<BR>
"If time passes, everything turns into beauty<BR>
If the rains stop, tears clean the scars of memory away<BR>
Everything starts wearing fresh colors<BR>
Every sound begins playing a heartfelt melody<BR>
Jealousy embellishes a page of the epic<BR>
Desire is embraced in a dream..."              -- X-JAPAN<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 11:36:09 EST<BR>
From: JFZeigler@aol.com<BR>
Subject: Re: Far Future Terra (was: Vanishing Wetlands...)<BR>
<BR>
In a message dated 12/21/99 6:35:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, <BR>
KenRoney@aol.com writes:<BR>
<BR>
> I haven't seen the map for years, but if I recall correctly, the globe <BR>
mapped <BR>
> <BR>
>  out for "Invasion Earth" appeared to indicate a significant rise in the <BR>
sea <BR>
>  level between then and now.  It is possible my memory is playing tricks on <BR>
> me.<BR>
<BR>
This is actually an oddity about the Invasion Earth map.  Most of the<BR>
continental outlines don't look much altered -- but it looks as if there's an<BR>
arm of the Mediterranean stretching up the Nile Valley, and most of<BR>
the West Siberian Plain is underwater.  Meanwhile other places that are<BR>
much closer to current sea level are drawn as land.<BR>
<BR>
My guess is (if you can take the I:E map seriously) that there hasn't<BR>
actually been any huge rise in sea level, but that there *have* been some<BR>
massive hydrological-engineering projects which have submerged certain<BR>
areas.  Why Egypt and Siberia?  Your guess is as good as mine. . .<BR>
<BR>
- ----------<BR>
Jon F. Zeigler: Mathematician, computer geek, amateur historian, freelance<BR>
writer, occasional scribbler of bad poetry<BR>
"For any statement, no matter how innocuous, there exists a nonempty<BR>
set of people who will take offense at it."<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 08:40:14<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: ..and it comes with a fresher!  (OT)<BR>
<BR>
For the Bay Area people:<BR>
<BR>
Our two roommates have just announced that they are moving to LA to pursue<BR>
a career in art films.  Look for them on a median strip near you soon.<BR>
<BR>
What this means for us is that we will have two rooms open for rent on<BR>
April 1st.  Rent and Utilities are about $500.  For that you get the top<BR>
floor of this building, all electric kitchen, skylights, close to Muni,<BR>
yadda, yadda, yadda.<BR>
<BR>
No smoking, No drugs, Booze allowed, but if you pass out Kirsten and I have<BR>
perverse senses of humor.  No pets, alas.  Landlord is a really great guy<BR>
named Ng (the Merciless)<BR>
<BR>
I'm announcing here because it I figured that it would be nice to get some<BR>
gamers under the same roof, and I know we have a few SFBA residents.<BR>
<BR>
Contact me off-list if you'd like to come and take a look at the place.<BR>
Where at 2062 19th Ave, #3, between Quintara and Pacheco.  Phone is (415)<BR>
564-2815.<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
Date: Tue, 21 Dec 1999 08:43:07<BR>
From: "Douglas E. Berry" <gridlore@pop.mindspring.com><BR>
Subject: Re: Far Future Terra (was: Vanishing Wetlands...)<BR>
<BR>
At 03:44 AM 12/21/1999 PST, you wrote:<BR>
<BR>
>> Aren't the Himmalayas still rising?<BR>
><BR>
>Possibly. After all, India is still trying to ram Asia.<BR>
<BR>
And doing a pretty good job of it.  The Himmalayas are indedd rising, a few<BR>
inches per century.  In fact, in about 5000 years Everst won't be the<BR>
tallest mountain any more, another peak will pass it.<BR>
<BR>
- -- <BR>
<BR>
Douglas E. Berry       gridlore@mindspring.com<BR>
http://gridlore.home.mindspring.com/index.html<BR>
<BR>
------------------------------<BR>
<BR>
End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1542<BR>
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